New episode of Breaking The Rules, and this makes it the sixth. Thanks to everyone who has collaborated, listened, commented and contributed to this idea.

This time we have Moockie behind the mic. A figure that has spurred, for many years, beyond the personal, hip hop, graffiti and other disciplines that compose it. And all this with an open mind to experiment and add resources to enrich the mix.

All pictures belong to Moockie.

You can listen on Ivvox here.

M- I’m happy to have you on the show. I am dying to listen to your story. Tell us, how did you start off in this?

Moockie- The first contact I had with this all was through Breaking. The movie. Well, my sisters took me. They were showing it at the Palacio Del Cinema in Via Layetana. We went to see it and it was like a bomb, you know. I stepped out of it wanting to be able to dance like that, practice it. But I had no idea how or where to start. I just got home and wanted to do the arm wave, which I didn’t even know was called the arm wave. That really was the trigger to say, hey I want to do this. Without even knowing then that this had to do with graffiti or hip hop, or nothing at all. For me it was a movie about dancing. We were a bunch of friends in that same neighborhood, and we’d always get together, and they all watched it too. In those days, when the movie came out, we hung out at an arcade in Condal street, in ’84. We were around 12-13 years old, and after seeing it, we said ‘hey we could do this’, and that meant we started practicing for fun, trying out the moonwalk or the arm wave. What struck us the most was what we now know to be popping and pop locking. In the movie we’d seen some footwork, but what really blew us away was the popping, which in those days we called electro. We called the music ‘break dance music’, we didn’t call it electro either, until much later.

We went to Universidad (metro station) after getting to know some people from the neighborhood that were a bit older than us, and that asked us to tag along to the station where a bunch of them got together. Universidad was two stops further than ours (Urquinaona). The first day we were amazed to see there were more people into this, although the real boom hadn’t come yet. It was about a week or two after the release of the movie. The point is that it hadn’t yet grown, although, truthfully, that went quite fast. Afterwards there’d be a lot of people getting together to dance.

In those days we didn’t go to Universidad walking through the streets, we’d use the tunnels that connected Plaza Cataluña to Plaza Universidad; Avenida de la Luz (Light Avenue).

‘In those days people used to wear a Nike one in two colors, we didn’t have it, we were too young. So we did the next best thing, took our own clothes and drew 3 sketches. We put them on the back of the jacket using aeronfix.’

M- That, by the way, was terribly dark… with the porn theatre, barely any lights on the stores…

Moockie- It was very dark indeed, and it didn’t feel too great to walk through, but hey, we were neighborhood boys. Actually, there was a music store around there that sold cassettes. After a short while it had the classic break dance tapes, that kind of thing. Some of our tapes were bought there. That place is now a Sephora. You’d cross Plaza Cataluña, go through the avenue tunnels, and you’d end up in Universidad, in a small hall that was behind the ticket booths, which were still connected even though they weren’t being used anymore. There was a piece by Puppets and another one that said Hip Hop, because that was also a practice spot. But we didn’t really grasp the idea of graffiti being something we could elaborate on. At least not me, and neither did my buddies, which were Pedro and Pablo at that time. On the other hand, we did practice break, maybe not daily, but often. We’d get together in one of the homes and practiced steps and moves; but mostly we’d go together to Universidad and watched the others dance. That was the first contact.

M- In the episode we did with Zeus, he explained that his brother started off breaking before him, and they did “graffiti breaker”, which is not like the graffit we came to understand later.

Moockie- When we started haging out, there were several groups, Puppets, Estrellas Negras (Black Stars) or DFR that I knew through reference of what people said. The Puppets I knew, yes, because they had a piece that would be seen a lot. There were lots of groups that didn’t have a name yet, so what did we do? We got ourselves a name, although I honestly cannot remember which. What I do remember was we’d make our letters seem electric, with lightning beams. I don’t remember if we had a concrete name or just put generic words, like ‘break’. What I never told you was that we made some drawings and put them on our rain jackets. In those days people used to wear a Nike one in two colors, we didn’t have it, we were too young. So we did the next best thing, took our own clothes and drew 3 sketches. We put them on the back of the jacket using aeronfix.

M- You had balls!.. hahahahaha

Moockie- Right after putting them on, after a short while, all of the ink bled out, a disaster. The drawing said break dance. I can’t remember us having a name, I’m thinking I’d remember it if we did. Same thing happens to me with graffiti, I have sketches with initials of the group we’d created, but I can’t seem to recall our name. It’s small details that don’t matter because they pop up and do not last. If I had the chance to contact Pablo or Pedro the name might just come out. I do recollect writing our names in a comic style.

M- Then there was a period of time where after break had a boom and a rush of popularity, it also suddenly declined, right?

Moockie- Yes, after Break Dance. On one of those days we were in Universidad, they did some promotion work and said they were going to premiere Breaking 2, which was called Electric Boogaloo. It would be presented in Palacio del Cinema. I think it was on a Sunday morning. It was nothing short of spectacular. I can’t remember if you had to have an invite, or if we bought tickets, what I know is that we went to see it. I don’t even know if we cut in or if the doors were left open. The place was filled with breakers and mainstream public, but the breakers were dancing in the aisles. Not sure in what year it premiered… (June of ’85).

‘The people from the movie theatre had left but hadn’t rolled down the shutters. The hall doors were left closed with a padlock, and it got busted. There was a sort of candy stand, and that became a stampede. Not only breakers. Later I thought ‘How will they ever bet on this, if it draws the wrong people for them?’.’

M- And you all knew each other then?

Moockie- Lots of people knew each other, but we from Uni didn’t have much involvement with others. We had acquaintances, but we’d hang with our people from the neighborhood. And when we got together it’d usually be the dancers, and the ones who’d come to pass the time. Same thing happened with people from other places, Carmelo, Pueblo Seco, Hospitalet, Santa Coloma… there’d be some bickering, because there’d be some ‘threatening’ ones. We were still really small, and with 12-13 years, even though you’d go to places where there are lots of people, and there’d be people your age, like Kapi – who I didn’t know at that time – you didn’t mingle. You later on see people like David from DFR, and of course they all looked familiar; he used airbrush and so did Sutil. They looked familiar from back in Uni, or Studio 54… But back then we didn’t speak; I remember Chicle, Largo, Butanero… As time passes you see some old videos from back then, and lots of memories come out of that. But yeah, we didn’t talk, we’d watch what was being done; and we didn’t get into beef with anyone because we had no kind of level whatsoever. We did popping and maybe a bit of floor moves, but there were others that in a few months had achieved a real good level. Nothing comparable to the B-Boying standards we have nowadays, because in those movies you’d barely see any floor work, and that’s why people who did power moves back then really stood out. And in those days, for the most part, breakers had all watched Beat Street, we hadn’t, and I didn’t even know of it until much later.

NYCity Breakers, or Rock Steady Crew, you see they’re different. Mr Wave of NYCity Breakers does popping. You’d see Crazy Legs, Kuriaki, a lot them doing the craziest things. East Coast and West Coast were very unalike. The East was very hood, very ghetto, and so were the West but much more flashy, colorful. The scripts were very different. But I had nothing to compare to, even though there was a bit more graffiti in Electric Boogaloo, but that movie was even more colorist.

I know of a good anecdote, which I’m sure some will remember. On the way out, when the movie had finished, if people stayed until the credits, they’ll remember it took quite a lot to get the people out because people were dancing everywhere. On the carpet, on the bar, in the hallway. They ended up throwing us out and we had to dance outside. I recall Nono and others having to do with it because there were Electric Boogaloo banners, and they started dancing outside. At a certain point the doors got busted. The people from the movie theatre had left but hadn’t rolled down the shutters. The hall doors were left closed with a padlock, and it got busted. There was a sort of candy stand, and that became a stampede. Not only breakers. Later I thought ‘How will they ever bet on this, if it draws the wrong people for them?’. I don’t know exactly how it happened. I’m sure there were people that stayed until the end. I saw it all from the outside. It was our neighborhood and people around knew us. It’s not like it was a small village, but you know how it goes. It was lower Eixample, Ciutat Vella.

When Break Dance came out, in ’84-’85, I was in 8th grade, and for the Castañada at school, we had to do certain activities, theatre plays and such. We suggested, with another guy from class that had started dancing that summer, to do a break dance exhibition. Which of course in the end was quite short. It was interesting, that other guy was David Benages and of his crew, one of the breakers was Reks. Years later, when I started writing, I saw him and recognized him because of it. Reks had been going for many years. Anyway, we did the exhibition and I only did popping, another guy did some floor work, and later came a guy that joined because he really liked it but couldn’t do much. He saw us and wanted to do some back spins. He managed only two, but it’s not like we were doing much more: we did the arm wave. Imagine that exhibition in class.

‘…someone said they were going tagging in the metro. So we went along with them, but I honestly thought we were going to do some clapping. Just like in my hood, you know, singing and clapping, just like in Barceloneta. I thought that’s how they called it. So you can imagine. Yeah, you’re laughing, but imagine, we arrive, and they start bombing the metro station of Urgell. And of course, we’re out of our minds “What are they doing?”.’

M- Well, I’m sure you were the cool guys.

Moockie- Yeah sure, super cool. Everyone wanted to dance. We were really glad, but we didn’t have many resources. We practiced very little, we weren’t very conscious, and I guess there were many like us.

M- I remember seeing break dance on Tocata (January ’86-‘87) and not until much later did I understand, and I definitely did not try to practice or anything. Did none of this have to do with graffiti?

Moockie- Not for us it didn’t, even though we’d draw our names, of course without any aesthetic or work behind it. Sometimes in Uni we’d put our names up with a Carioca marker, like putting John along with a star, but there was no consciousness. That happened later. We went to Uni a couple of years, more or less, but stopped going because it would get too crowded, and problems would occur. We carried on in the neighborhood. We weren’t many, 5 or 6 at the beginning, but later on we’d be 25 getting together.

M- Where there any girls dancing?

Moockie- There were some. In the beginning, in our neighborhood and of our age, there were none, except maybe someone’s girlfriend. Solo girl, I can’t recall any. It’s weird because in Breaking, on both sides of the beef, there were girls. In other neighborhoods there were girls because that was a sort of requisite of the crew. They had to have a girl in the group. In those times it was all more like a game to me. Later on, in High School and Vocational School, I did start meeting up with other people other because Pedro and Pablo, being fifteen, already preferred going out to clubs, dressed up and all that. I persevered, changing groups until I started at Vocational and there found people who were interested. But keep in mind that it was all based on what I had seen in movies, also Flashdance or Body Rock. Later we went to clubs that played Italo Disco, disco music and we danced. In one of those, somebody told us about another club where they played rap. In Consejo de Ciento street. We used to go to the clubs in the Calvo Sotelo area, and they’d let us because we’d liven up the night, even though we were wearing sneakers.

We’d go to that club the same way you’d go out dancing. There was a rap selection that lasted an hour, and then they’d go over to New Wave, The Cure, The Smiths… and that would change the crowd. The first day we got in, we met Neas, Leur, Shot, Shan… I’m sure we met a lot others, but I can’t remember. Rap was on and we started dancing, and they walked up like ‘What the hell are these guys doing?’. They told us what we were doing was out. They knew we were of the same vibe, but we were completely outdated. They explained a bit, and we flipped out. I mean, imagine, me with a Beaver tail earring… They must have thought “Who are these freaks?”

M- Hahahaha… I wanna see pictures.

Moockie- Sure, I must have some with camo pants on, and all that. When we left the club, I don’t know if it was Neas, someone said they were going tagging in the metro. So we went along with them, but I honestly thought we were going to do some clapping. Just like in my hood, you know, singing and clapping, just like in Barceloneta. I thought that’s how they called it. So you can imagine. Yeah, you’re laughing, but imagine, we arrive, and they start bombing the metro station of Urgell. And of course, we’re out of our minds “What are they doing?”. We didn’t understand. They tried to explain but we were dumbfounded, and we disconnected a bit.

That club had sessions on weekends, so once in middle school we’d get together and talked about it all. How they did it, where they’d get their markers from, ‘cause those were thick. The first thing we did that next weekend was ask them where they’d bought them. They told us they were sold at art supplies stores. In Urquinanoa there’s the Teixidó shop. An Edding 800 or 850 where the usual. I ran to buy it, and put my name down.

‘In September of ’89 I bought myself that marker. I remember taking the metro in Urquinanoa, one of the least used entries. There were about 40 steps and in that space I must have set like 50 tags, while waiting. All of it Moockie, probably terribly. I’m a bit obsessive when I start on something I like. I had that, and still have it. '

M- Actually, where does your name come from?

Moockie- When we started to dance, we didn’t have a war name yet. When I started going to high school I always carried a lined binder, and was crazy about martial arts. I bought magazines like Dojo, and amongst other pictures I had a big one of Bruce Lee, so people called me Brusli. I didn’t like it at all, so I changed it to Bruski. I can’t remember exactly, but I ended up changing it again and it turned into Brooskie. I drew that name in comic style. And that’s how it stayed until I started writing Moockie. When I started going to the BCN club I already had the name.

During ’87-’88 and ’89 we had a friend in Gracia, and we saw the Safari Spray piece, which we called Bongo Bolongo because we couldn’t make out that it said Safari Spray. Close to that there was also a piece from SN, and one day I took my dad’s Zenit and took some pictures, because I loved that wall. I don’t even think we called it graffiti. We didn’t have that concept. For me the word graffiti didn;t exist until 1989. It was all related, but we didn’t grasp that until much later. I didn’t even hear about the Movida Gansa when it happened, we were off in our own bubble, and it was only with time, knowing people, that you got situated in the whole thing.

In September of ’89 I bought myself that marker. I remember taking the metro in Urquinanoa, one of the least used entries. There were about 40 steps and in that space I must have set like 50 tags, while waiting. All of it Moockie, probably terribly. I’m a bit obsessive when I start on something I like. I had that, and still have it. And I am very productive. I started bombing and when I left to school, I’d bomb. I’d leave earlier and stop in every station, Cataluña, Universidad and Urgell. Afterwards I started leaving even earlier and I’d get to Plaza España, and I’d bomb the metro and stations. And later, if i had to start at 8.30, I’d take the first metro and take the line on both sides. After that came line 1, 4, 3 and shortly after that I was being seen quite a lot. I remember that Sutil, although I can’t recall in which number of CFC in ’90 or so, put up a section called ‘most viewed’. In it was Fase, and my name was also on there. We were everywhere. Fase had all of San Andrés, Torras i Bages, etc, completely filled up, but Sendy’s was also up there. That Sendy’s tag with that little medal and 1, was everywhere and had it all bombed too. Then you’d go down the street and you’d find Mat, Inupie. Both of them were crazy, and so was Telz. I remember going to places thinking I was going to bomb it all, and finding their names. There were many others , but some just really stuck with me. In those days PH, Ermo and Jeremy tagged a lot, they lived in Pueblo Seco. Ermo had a tag that was like a circle, that was really visible. As we were evolving, many more groups cameo out to bomb. Mat was in all corners.

M- Mat was the perfect secret agent, almost nobody knew who he was.

Moockie- Mat wasn’t easy to recognize, he was what we’d now call a nerd. He could easily pass as computer scientist. He went quite unnoticed. Inupie later tried that too, he’d sometimes appear with a briefcase.

M- Once in Maçanet, he appeared with a tent, and told us “you have to walk 10 meters behind me, so we’re not tied to each other. And we answered, “but we’re all alone”.

Moockie- All alone in the woods, hahahhaa. There were some very obsessed with bombing. In ’89 in one of the meetings with Uni, Sendy’s and Bly, we found out they’d done an Intercity train in Marina, and we went to see it. It was a piece with white outlines. The colors used weren’t the usual, and to be honest it was a hell of a piece. Once there, we came across some guys a bit older than us, one of them was Zana. And maybe Joy. We were 18 at that time, and Zana told us he’d seen us write and asked us to come along. In those days, our group had been looking for a name and we were called CZ, Channel Zero, which I think we got out of a Public Enemy LP. I bought the vinyl in en Galerías Preciados or Tallers, which was where you could find rap. Yes, I think we did get the name from there. We then did a CZ with plastics, as we didn’t do silvers yet. We bought a can or two to trace with and we did our piece. The sketch was made by several of us. Zana taught us what reverses were. We were doing this piece just steps away from the Intercity piece. He showed me how to trace using two separate lines and filling in the middle so it’d be clean. He taught me some tricks. We were Keco, Troy and Kralem, that started bombing around that time, and was learning with us. He was from Carmelo and knew people from there: Zana, Reno and me.

On another day, Zana talked about doing an even bigger piece, and that was what you could call my first real piece, I wrote MCK and he did ZN.

M- And which Paint did you use?

Moockie- Well I think we used Spray Color, although I don’t know where we bought it. It must have been one of those brands, because we were able to do inverted colors. It’s not like there were many options. In Barcelona, you had Felton for cars… I can’t really remember the brands. But we must have gone to Unicor if I recall correctly… Caps, the ones that came with the can. I didn’t start changing my caps until my first Interrail*, which I did on my own in Zurich, using some cans called Miocar. Real crazy silvers. And with that I brought back my first fat caps… as well as a bunch of silver cans that I used later on in a piece that was talked bout.

M- You were telling me you used to do something to the caps too, right?

Moockie- What we did was take the cap and with a cutter we’d make slight cuts to get effects, like a beveled one for example. But this wasn’t my idea, it was something I’d seen other writers do. We’d usually make those small cuts, but we basically just used the caps that came with the can. The diffusers I’d brought were male, and the cans here in Spain came with female one, so until that changed I could only use them on cans we’d get from abroad.

M- OK but before that trip, had you done other things, had you been with other crews?

Moockie- Yes, I did the Interrail alone, in ’92. After CZ, the group with which we’d started, I got to know Bly, who was in a group called SAC. Most of them were from Clot, and as that was on line 1 too, I’d go there often.

M- For those who don’t know, what does SAC stand for?

Moockie- SAC stands for Sociedad Anónima Crew (Anonymous Society Crew). At first I only tagged along with them, and then I joined, but the crew was formed already. Mike, Lexy, Dane, Fonos, Bly, Seer 7, Sara which was Lexy’s girl, and Rox (I’mnot sure whether he came in before or after me, but all these were SAC). Later on the formation changed. I think originally the crew was Mike, Lexy, Dane and Fonos. Although I’m not completely sure. I’m certain Mike knows, he wrote SeSac and is still doing his things nowadays. I also know there were more people in the crew, like Sip. The crew till exists today, but Mike now writes Absure2000, I think he once explained how that was a word game on Abstract and Future 2000.

M- That was in 1990.

Moockie- Yes, until I had to leave at the end of ’90 to do my military service, which I had to do in Barbastro, as high mountain sapper. A very unpleasant time. Until I left, than I wrote and bombed a whole lot. The crew had so many people that walls would get done as bombing. Lexy was full speed. I mean, the crew was very active. When I got into the crew Dane and Fonos were a bit more idle then, but still the Verneda area was SAC territory.

‘Mike told me he was going to do a freight tran, whole car. As I was in service, I knew I could get into trouble if I’d get caught. But Mike said the place he was going to was really safe. In those days he worked at SEAT (car manufacturer). So we took his car, a completely painted mini, and we filled the trunk of the car with paint. Over the top. We rode the car up to the actual wagon and started writing’

M- You had something fun happen during your military service, correct?

Moockie- Yeah. In ’91, in one of my weekend leaves, Mike told me he was going to do a freight tran, whole car. As I was in service, I knew I could get into trouble if I’d get caught. But Mike said the place he was going to was really safe. In those days he worked at SEAT (car manufacturer). So we took his car, a completely painted mini, and we filled the trunk of the car with paint. Over the top. We rode the car up to the actual wagon and started writing. It was one of those metallic freight cars.

Mike was really eager to get a magazine started. There were already a couple going around. The most important one was CFC, that had great material from different cities. So Mike decided to create a fanzine he called WYN, Write Your Name. And in the first issue he decided to add that picture.

M- Was it the first wholecar on a freight train?

Moockie- In Barcelona, probably. In Madrid I’m not sure because there was a lot being done. Actually, I don’t know when Loomit did that metro. So I’m not certain it was the first, but it wasn’t a usual thing. The fact of it being a freight car didn’t have the same value. Later it started getting the value of the difficulty of doing wagons, but not at that time. But that’s also because people back then didn’t do freights, people either tagged or maybe did some throw-ups, but that’s it. I consider that wagon to be more Mike’s tan mine. He had structure; he had a plan. I was along to complete it. It was great.

Moockie- While I was in service, SAC started to dissolve, some didn’t want to remain, they’d had disputes, and after coming back there came a day when I decided to leave the crew. Fonos and Dane were barely writing, Bly wasn’t doing much either. The ones I saw the most were John and Lexy, who had left SAC and decided to create the Malignos crew. When I finished my service, I still tagged SAC but I didn’t hang out with the people left in that crew, so in the end I moved over to Malignos.

They wrote 2MS, because there were two Malignos. When I entered, we came to be 3MS. Later Thee joined and we became 4MS. And then came Zax who was a real pro from Virrey Amat, Lexy’s neighborhood. Zax was a huge fan of Giger and he did incredible things. He was light years ahead, at least from me. So anyway, we were 5MS or 6MS when Cruze from Zurich joined. After that, Lexy was in touch with Noote from London. I gathered this information not so long ago, and I don’t really remember if I ever met Noote. The thing is that this crew was hitting it hard with bombing. We got to it every day, we were very active. The one writing the most then was John, who wrote SR7. Lexy had always been very consistent. He had been in a crew called Megaherzios 3. They were from Virrey Amat, on line 5, and they had the line completely bombed. Part of the crew were breakers.

M- How was the relationship with other crews?

Moockie- We were often in touch. We’d go to Carmelo with CZ, or to see Kralem, Sendy’s, Puke. Crom lived in my neighborhood and he was 3RL from San Andrés, but lived next to the arcade I was telling you about. I think he’s Irene’s (Sutil’s girlfriend) cousin, and he moved a lot with Free, Fase, Biz, Ash, Cad, Lennon. The people from Intercity, Carmelo, also went to San Andrés.

Before I got started there was the war of the factions, with on one side Skate Nois and Dynamic Foot Rockers, and on the other side Mafia 2. I met these people post-war, when I went to San Andrés. In Carmelo I used to see Kapi, but I didn’t hang out with him in those times. It was all very related. We’d meet up with Puke and Sendy’s. Sendy’s had a crew with Kapi and Tzac, who were Street Gang. As I said, it was all intertwined. Whether you were from one crew or another, you’d associate with a lot of people.

‘From what I can remember, many crews had their magazines, it was kind of like an identity sign, your way to contribute and teach. They were photocopied fanzines that would cost 50, 100 pesetas (30 to 70 $ cents), very affordable. If Aerovicio came over, you had the chance to not only see their pieces, but what was around Ciudad Badía, Sabadell, etc… In each village there were crews making their magazines. You’d move around, but not as we do now, so that would help you check out what was being done in other neighborhoods.’

M- But did you write with people from other crews as well?

Moockie- Yes, sure. When we were in SAC, we’d do a lot with PH, who were very active: Chino, Slegs, Rasta, Flash, Samu, Spee, Noc, who also went to Clot, although he was from Sta Coloma. PH were almost all from Hospitalet, except Jeremy and Ermo who were from Paralelo. There was always a good atmosphere. We’d often get together with other crews.

Talking about old things, I mean, these are my memories, but I am sure that if the other guys I’ve talked about would be here, there’d be many more things coming out. There are stories and details, pictures, or people commenting something, and I don’t always remember what they said. Not so long ago Zosen, who’s writing a book, sent me a picture and asked me where that had been. I don’t know where, or when, or even what piece that is. I’m on the picture, so I admit it could be mine, but that’s about it. He’s told me I did it with Mike, on the railway tracks to Mataró, but I have no idea. It doesn’t sound familiar at all. I don’t have a Beard on the picture, so it must have been around the time I was in military service.

Malignos was created in ’91, while I was in service, but it grew with the years.

M- So you’re in Malignos, started of as 3, how does the connection with Kapi come, to create Game Over?

Moockie- SAC was doing the WYN magazine, and afterwards once Malignos got created, Lexy wanted to have his own magazine, and thought that because we’re in Spain it should be called ETN “Escribe Tu Nombre” (Write Your Name in Spanish). From what I can remember, many crews had their magazines, it was kind of like an identity sign, your way to contribute and teach. They were photocopied fanzines that would cost 50, 100 pesetas (30 to 70 $ cents), very affordable. If Aerovicio came over, you had the chance to not only see their pieces, but what was around Ciudad Badía, Sabadell, etc… In each village there were crews making their magazines. You’d move around, but not as we do now, so that would help you check out what was being done in other neighborhoods.

I am very sorry for the people listening to the podcast for the messy explanation. It would have been more linear and easier to understand if I’d painted it or danced it… but it’s difficult to keep a chronology. I’m a bit obsessive with what I like, so aside from writing and dancing, we made magazines and later, music. I am someone who likes to work on different fronts and it’s a bit difficult to structure so that it doesn’t seem so complex.

The magazine with Malignos, ETN, lasted a bit, but just as with graffiti, you either evolve or you get stuck, or in other words it kind of “dies”. Fanzines started off being made from photocopies but at a certain point Sutil started rastering the pictures, and the photocopies looked a lot better. I’ve always had the mentality to keep on progressing, to go further. When we made ETN, we edited in quite an anarchic fashion, we just all got together and decided what to add. We made a master hard copy, with photocopies and sketches. We took it to print: 100 copies, and then we went home to staple them. ETN came out monthly, and did not last long, but it did have many issues brought out, we were very productive. At that point I suggested making a magazine of better quality but that meant investing more money. The rest didn’t agree, as for them it wasn’t a priority.

Moockie- That was in ’92, when we were editing the magazine. I had finished my service the year before, summer was almost there, and we were hanging out in the Picnic. There was always a crowd there, AVT, Nekto, Neas, Gus, Pato, Shot. There was an inner area with pool tables, and we’d hang out there, it was kind of our mini clubhouse. And that’s where the Interrail idea sprung up, to be able to write across Europe. It cost 40.000 pesetas (+/- $280) and you had a period of 1 month to travel around using economy class. At first it was 15 of us that wanted to go, and little by little people started to fall off. The day before we’d planned to leave, it was just Lexy and me, and he decided not to go either. He didn’t think it was worth it to go off on our own, but I had already started getting in touch with people. I exchanged letters with people from 40k from Switzerland, I’d already had contact with Cruze, who was in charge of picking up pictures. I had spoken with Jonone, who at that time was with BBC, with Jay, Skki and Ash. He had his studio at Hopital Ephemere, an old hospital that had been turned into artist studios. What happened? That I was left alone. At that moment I decided not to go. I was quite pissed off, as I had been working on getting those contacts, and that was something you couldn’t undo. During that time I didn’t speak English except for what they teach you at school, which is bad, so I couldn’t have a conversation over the phone. I took the metro to go home and when I got to Urquinanoa I told myself, you’re going solo. I went to Paseo de Gracia, because that’s where they had it all: rolls of film (which I had serious problems with in Switzerland), they had paint, etc… and I bought my ticket. I got home and told my parents. The freaked out when I told them I was going alone: “How are you going to leave to paint on your own?” I told them I had friends in places.

M- That was in ’92, so you were 21.

Moockie- Yes. I left from the 10th of august to the 7th of September. I took everything I had with me, which was more paint than clothes. I did have underwear, but for the rest I thought “Oh, I’ll just find a way to do washes”. I didn’t think it through. My planning of the trip was, I am going to meet people, but that’s it. I didn’t book a hostel, didn’t think about where I would shower, nothing. I left with my huge backpack, an Altus, full to the brim, just like I had to when going to the mountain during military service, but now filled with paint. I didn’t think I’d get stopped at the borders, and that I’d be asked questions. I mean, in ’92 nobody really understood graffiti. I went to several cities, and as it wasn’t usual back then for young people to travel around, when somebody from abroad came, they’d flip out. I was invited to their homes, to write with them. To be honest I don’t think I was very good at that time, but I did a lot of writing, and I had brought some photo albums with me. Just showing them the pictures of what you did, had them wanting to paint. Imagine that, it also happened in Barcelona in the beginning: someone came from abroad, and it was something fresh, different; there wasn’t the mix we have nowadays.

The first day I went straight to Paris and got there quite late, around 9 or 10 p.m., and it was a bit chaotic. I couldn’t call because the phone booths were with card, and you didn’t have euros as we do now, they had the French Franks. Bummer. In the end I somehow managed to call Jon’s house, but nobody picked up. They were all in Hopital Ephemere, because Sharp and A-One from New York had come. I went over there, and he let me stay in the studio but told me I couldn’t get out at night, because people weren’t allowed to sleep there. So, I couldn’t turn the light on. Jon and Skki were real nice to me. That night, we couldn’t use the door to get out, but there was a wall we could jump, one they’d use to get in and out when they weren’t supposed to be there anymore.

Moockie- Skki spoke perfect English, but not me. He babbled a bit of Spanish, and I babbled a bit of English. He asked if I liked music. He was crazy about electronic music. I told him I listened to some rap, but more electronic. He said “I know a group you are going to love, Altern-8.” A group of Early Breaks, like a James Brown funky drummer, but then used for everything and with bass lines. We went to Virgin, which in that period in Paris, as well as London, was open at 2 a.m., something you did not see in Spain. You could ask to listen to everything. I bought the Altren-8 LP “Full on… Mask Hysteria", it had just come out. I had that with me for the Interrail, what a rush. I stayed a few days in Paris, writing, doing the usual, but also talking a lot in Jon’s studio, that went on like a madman non-stop painting pictures. He was on fire, just like he is now. He has always been on full.

After that I went to Switzerland, and from there on to other cities. Jon asked if I’d like to put 156. I said yes, because there’s nothing better than being in a crew with people you match with. I said it’d be an honor, because honestly I wished I had a group of people I’d connect with. But with time, if you don’t travel… I did run into Jon again in several parties, and later on in German parties we met Futura, met up with people from NYC. But then if you’d meet them, it’s not like you could get together with the to write every week, and of course now it’s different because even if you’re far you can videocall, etc.... But before, you either called or wrote a letter, and if that person felt like it, he’d answer. Jon for example was never one to write back, he was more a I’ll phone you and talk to you. On that trip, in Zurich, where I had good contact with Patrick Cruze, aside from 156, I got asked to join UTK (United Terror Kids), a strong crew, that is still on the move. When I was with him, he introduced me to the rest of the crew, and we went off to write. We were with Sigi “Dare” in Bazel.

‘…They were surprised at how little clothes I had with me for 30 days of traveling, and about the amount of paint I had with me. They also flipped with the photo film Rolls, because they thought they had something in them. They’d shake them, wanted to open them; I was pissed off thinking they’d screwed up my pictures of Stalingrad, all of Paris… They were about to fuck it all up for me, but they didn’t. ‘

Moockie- When I left, in one of those trips, I think it was this one, I had to enter Switzerland by Bazel, and when I was taking the train from Paris, I was looking for Basel (on the station display screens) but couldn’t find it. Patrick had given me the name butin France they call it Balé, and I of course didn’t understand anything. I’d ask around and people told me they didn’t understand me. They weren’t very friendly in Paris. People from so-called bad neighborhoods were much more pleasant. Not the really bad hood, of NTM, but if you went to La Bastille or places like that, the people from Argelia were much nicer, and some even spoke some Spanish. In Poisy it was also different, but in the centre of town… no help, they didn’t even look at me, and it felt as though I was invisible. So there I was in Gare du Nord, and tripping because I couldn’t find Basel or Basilea anywhere... until someone said it was Balé. In Switzerland it was worse, it was all so different, but I had Patrick taking care of me and spoke perfect Spanish, so I was at ease. Patrick was a great host, as was Jon. I stayed home, and our relationship was already a bit closer, his family was half Spanish. He came from Segur de Calafell, and from there to Barcelona to write.

I remained in Zurich as base. And I must say I did do a lot of writing, took a lot of pictures. In fact, on the border with Switzerland, I was stopped by the police and the reason was basically because I looked like crap in clothes full of paint. I had my backpack full of cans, and all the clothes full of paint. In my eyes, at least, it was paint, to others it was filth. So in between how I looked, my hair, that I didn’t look like a Swiss, with big eyebrows, and brown skinned (it was logic they were surprised). When I got in, I was asked what I was going to do in Switzerland, I told them I was there to take pictures. “Alone?”, – “And to paint”, “Paint what?”… They didn’t get it and in the end, I even think I told them I was going to be doing graffiti.

All this I found out thanks to the fact they brought a girl in who could speak Spanish. As I mentioned before, I could only guess what they were saying because they were speaking to me in German and French. The girl came, I think she was from Chile, and asked me what I was going to do. Me: Graffiti, Her: What is graffiti?, Me: It’s what I was doing on the wall, like decoration murals, Her: But, for someone? Which cities are you going to?, Me: Zurich.

I was asked for Patrick’s information, and they emptied my backpack. They were surprised at how little clothes I had with me for 30 days of traveling, and about the amount of paint I had with me. They also flipped with the photo film Rolls, because they thought they had something in them. They’d shake them, wanted to open them; I was pissed off thinking they’d screwed up my pictures of Stalingrad, all of Paris… They were about to fuck it all up for me, but they didn’t. They made me sign a paper stating I was entering the country and would leave on the 7th of September. That’s what I wanted and what I did, I moved on from there to Italy, the north of Germany, Finland... I’d leave for a couple of days and return to Zurich.

Of course, I understand. I had a lot of paint on me, and didn’t even know what or where I’d be, and I had to exchange money in every country. I remember further on in Holland, in Maatricht or Sittaard with Nash, we came across something funny, the bank there was called Rabobank*. (*Rabo in spanish means tail, but also dick, so they were at the Bank of Dicks).

Moockie- That journey bared its fruits. I came to Barcelona with so many film rolls. I took them to develop and print as soon as I could. I had met Kapi by then, we’d agreed to meet up and this was while he was making ETN, and he anted to do something else too. I commented I wanted to do something with all the material I’d brought from my trip, and I wanted it to look good. Kapi worked at RBA.

M- Yes, so was I. I met you there, or at least that’s one of my first memories.

Moockie- Yeah. He told me to do something together. How about doing the magazine? We took it to printing. I had no idea of how this all worked, but Kapi did. I thought it was a good idea, but i wasn’t sure how the others were going to take it. I also didn’t know how much this was going to cost, etc… Thing is, Kapi had also been traveling, and he also had pictures. In the end, we’d go to the RBA offices at night and worked on the magazine. It almost seemed like we were doing something wrong.

M- Well, it was a bit wrong. I can just see the face they’d pull had they seen us “working” there after hours… I was just helping you guys out.

Moockie- Yes, yes, I remember. It says so in the magazine too, thanks to Musa for all the help, hahahaha

M- I didn’t have a specific task, but I was helping.

Moockie- Many of the meeting were at your place, and it was a loft, so you’d be there whether you wanted to or not.

M- A loft? hahahhaa. It was a tiny studio.

Moockie- Yup, it was one small space. Yes, the magazine was run in both these places, and parallel to that was also the creation of Montana, although that was a bit later.

‘…The paint got to the store on a Friday, and by Saturday we had run out. Of course, at work, they just couldn’t believe it. They said: “Hang on, did it get bought or robbed?”. The girl that worked at the register confirmed they had been bought. My boss was in, but he wanted to get the prices up. I put pressure on him to actually keep them low, thinking this way we would sell more and Felton would drop their prices. And so it was.’

M- Wait, wait… you were already working in Mayolas.

Moockie- I worked at a gardening and rubber store, this was at the end of ’91. Before that I worked nights at a Branch of the Treasury Department, in Plaza Letamendi, because I studied during the day. I’d come out of school, go to the Picnic, and then to work at 11 pm. My parents barely saw me, I barely slept… It was all very hectic. We were doing lots of things. In April of ’92 I started working at Mayolas, and not long after that I left on the Interrail because they would close a month for holidays.

I started working at the store because that of Treasury turned into a co-op and I didn’t have enough money to invest with what I was getting from my unemployment benefits, and I didn’t feel like putting money in something like that. The store was close to home, right next to the movie theatre where I saw Breaking, on Vía Layetana. Right off the bat, they told me what they sold and to get the storage area sorted out. I found an old revolving shelf with car paint sprays, a Felton shelf. They were really old. It was those tiny Felton cans, they were rusted, with the paper almost gone. They didn’t sell, according to them, just one or two per year, they said. The colors were nothing like we have now, there were colors with brand and model of the car. They were for fixing small scratches and such.

I tried to convince the boss that we had to sell paint, but he was really uptight. I assured him we could sell a lot of it, thinking that this way we might get the cans at an even better price, a lot cheaper. In those days we already hung out with the BTS (Bandits), and I thought we could all have better paint at very good prices. The boss didn’t even want to try at first. At last, he agreed, and I started calling around asking for price lists. A sales rep came around, an old man. Jordi Rubio didn’t work there yet. This man wanted to sell car paint, but I knew there was an array of paint for decoration, for chairs, for wooden frames, stuff like that… He gave me some really high prices. We (our crew) were used to getting out paint at Unicor and they had really low prices for Spray Color. I told the sales rep and he said that was impossible. It took some wrestling but, in the end,, he gave in and he agreed to seel a certain amount. I had to agree to a full exhibitor and an extra box of each color. It wasn’t incredibly much, but that was maybe 200 or 300 cans, so at first my boss said no. But we got to an agreement. He said: “Ok, I’ll buy them, but if they don’t sell I’ll take it out of your payroll”. I was so sure of it, that I agreed. So we ordered, and I called everyone. Lexi, Kapi, etc… The paint got to the store on a Friday, and by Saturday we had run out. Of course, at work, they just couldn’t believe it. They said: “Hang on, did it get bought or robbed?”. The girl that worked at the register confirmed they had been bought. My boss was in, but he wanted to get the prices up. I put pressure on him to actually keep them low, thinking this way we would sell more and Felton would drop their prices. And so it was.

The sales rep couldn’t believe we had sold out so quickly. And then what happened? I left for the Interrail, and brought back silver Miocar cans from Switzerland. Patrick showed me they’d use a diffuser, fat caps like the NY fat caps but wider, the germans. They’d take them from I don’t know where, and they’d add 15 cms or so, very extreme. I brought those caps back, and asked Felton if we could make them… they didn’t even want to listen to me, didn’t even take a look at my idea. The sales rep was not interested, it was a man of 60 years old. I tried to put pressure oni t, but it just didn’t work.

The sales rep couldn’t believe we had sold out so quickly. And then what happened? I left for the Interrail, and brought back silver Miocar cans from Switzerland. Patrick showed me they’d use a diffuser, fat caps like the NY fat caps but wider, the germans. They’d take them from I don’t know where, and they’d add 15 cms or so, very extreme. I brought those caps back, and asked Felton if we could make them… they didn’t even want to listen to me, didn’t even take a look at my idea. The sales rep was not interested, it was a man of 60 years old. I tried to put pressure oni t, but it just didn’t work.

Moockie-There were more and more people coming to the store, people that knew me. So if I was there, they wouldn’t do anything, but if I wasn’t, well, they’d take the cans with them. If Moockie is there, I’ll be Good, but if he isn’t…

So one day I get a call from Felton, and it’s Jordi Rubio. He told he had just come into Felton, and that he had analyzed the sells and had realized we sold quite a bit of paint. He was interested to know what kind of store we were. I told them this was a gardening and rubber store. I remember him asking what we used the Paint for, and I told him for murals, graffiti. Jordi probably remembers the conversation.

He wanted us to meet and I thought, I am getting the caps off this guy. I called Kapi and we took our magazine with us, just to see what we could get out of it. This was in ’93, we already had brought out some issues, and we wanted to start advertising and have money to better the magazine.

Jordi came, and it was great, he was truly very interested in what we were doing. And I think an opening appeared to him too, a new way to sell paint that was not sold for cars. He, as sales rep, must have been thinking, the more points I get, the better. And we explained everything to him, the caps, the magazine, etc…

We received an answer from Felton, and it wasn’t great, partly because Jordi had just started working there, and partly because Felton had a very closed mind. They viewed graffiti as being purely vandalism, they didn’t think of the murals, only about the desctruction side of things, and people who used paint for that. Evidently graffiti does have that side, but it also has its artistic side too. But anyway, they just didn’t see it. Jordi, Kapi and I had a Good Connection. I think when we met he had already seen the Bongo Bolongo, and had been in the USA, in San Francisco, and had already seen the Subway Art and Spray Can Art; I’m not completely sure, and I don’t know if I remember rit now because it happened this way or because we’ve talked about it through time. What I don know is that he had seen graffiti.

So, the store was selling lots of paint, and we were maturing the idea in our minds… I think it came up through all of us. I was working at a store I didn’t want to work at, Kapi same thing, and surely some conversation started about starting our own store, and getting all the things we loved together. Because in those days, if you wanted cans, you either went to Unicor or to what people called Moockies’s store; but if you wanted some good markers, you had to go to an arts store, like Teixidó. If you wanted t-shirst, you went to Mercadillo, where clothes came from London. We were thinking ‘if we had one place where we could get all of this”. With the magazine we were already doing some exchanges, in a section called Game Over Shop, can’t remember in which issue this was. We did this because other magazines like 40k had a section where they’d sell magazines of other places, or books. Not markers yet. And that’s how the idea of the store came to be.

Musa- Moockie, man, we have two hours recorded now, and we’ve only gotten to ’93. We’re going to have to stop here and continue another day with a new episode.